The 6L80 / 6L90 uses three-way solenoids and variable bleed solenoids for improved shift quality. Im not tuned ( not yet anyway), however, if I knew then what I know today, I probably would have went for the M6. Be aware of your output shaft version before proceeding with any adaptation. By utilizing more gearing, the 6L80 keeps the car in its power band longer, improving the MPG of the vehicle between 4-7% (over the previous generation fours speed transmissions) depending on the configuration of the vehicle that its in. Had transmission rebuilt (Pro).My problem is that when it gets around 35, 8L90E Specs, Performance, and Identification, TH400 Transmission Specs, ID, and Common Problems, Mazda 6 P0320: Meaning, Causes, & Diagnosis. Always inspect the sump for possible evidence of debris that could indicate the pump drive gears could be failing. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. The 6L80 transmission pan is similar in shape but the 6L80 is shorter at 17 1/2 inches. 6L80/90 - 8L90 Floor Tap Shifter Kit. The 6l80 was designed to handle the torque output of some of GM's biggest late-model LS (gen 4) and LT (gen 5) v8 engines, but a number of design flaws created most of the common 6L80E transmission problems. 10L80 Performance Rebuild. As these units accumulate more mileage, these concerns may become more frequent. Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. Looking for parts number : new shaft, copling et seal and where to find them. Fluid pressure is maintained by an off-axis main pump that can vary the displacement depending on the load. It is a heavy-duty version of the 6L80 six-speed automatic, with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total, and a strengthened output gearset, that uses wider gears than the 6L80. How do Sonnax components prevent the failure that plagues these units? The TCM-2650 is compatible with the GM 6L45/50, 6L80/90 . The new 2019 Camaro gets the a10 but, Its not the a10 (10L90) from the ZL1. vehicle weights. Thx Most of the larger displacement applications will have an auxiliary oil-to-air cooler in the system as well. When its enabled at low speeds the exhaust tone becomes muffled, the AFM valves clatter open and closed, v4 vibration and increased injector noise is nothing but annoying, especially with a convertible. Now controlled by computers, the E series transmission allowed for a wide range of tuning options. The 10R80 doesn't have a traditional "front" pump. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. It's a longitudinal transmission (that's what the L in 6 L 80E stands for). I use this vehicle to tow a 20 ft 10k trailer that I use to carry a 5500lb tractor. By Wayne Colonna. As with earlier Hydramatics, the 6L80 will accept either the 258mm or 300mm torque converters. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Stuck On and P0973 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Circuit Low also set. 60 mph with cruise on going down hill and truck will start down shifting. Accelerate from a stop with light throttle (15%), ensuring that upshifts 1st through 8th occur at engine speeds between 1300-1600 rpm. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. You might run into a lack of valve body repair options. The check engine light might be on, and the customer complains of a slipping sensation with intermittent clunks. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. Thats a great question. I & II To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. Each clutch is controlled by a corresponding shift solenoid A-F. Lets talk about some of the concerns and fixes we have been seeing. The stator shaft support housing comes with these gears as one assembly. General 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter Eighth 0.85 These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. The Sonnax forged covers and pistons are designed to be flat and will stay that way through the forces of converter welding, miles of driving and varying input torque from the engine. As to length, this transmission is 26-1/4" long. 2024 Mustang Prices Are Out, Dark Horse Is . With REVolution, your transmission becomes an integral, critical part of your combination, allowing you to maximize its performance using either the Quick 6, Quick 4, or Quick 2 controller. In a similar vein, GM Gen. IV engines do not always take kindly to other transmissions such as manuals (essentially no longer available from GM), and most automatics that predate the 6L80. It is currently phasing out the 6L80/6L90 transmissions (although it hasn't done its all the way yet. SEE, I think it's a 15 pin plug and two wires change on the plug fro 95 to. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? However, it is a long transmission and is not compatible with short-wheelbase Jeeps such as the CJ5. Check out delicious pictures and movies from Peter Mrup, Dennis Andersson and Svein Pedersen. As you build the best transmission that you can for your customer, you should consider including an updated torque converter in the repair estimate. $499.00. Inspect the warmer for damage and related lines for leaks (Figure 4). GM LS1 - 9 and Chrysler/Mopar Gen III & Viper V10, Chevrolet Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Chrysler Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Ford Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Torque Converters with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4L65E Stage II - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E Frn Std till 1000Hp version, 6L80E / 6L90E From Stock to 1000Hp version. If youre having problems with your 10L80 youre going to want the most economical solution. They can then use these unseen components throughout their different product lines and improve their profit margins through the lower shared development costs. It can also be controlled under DSC, or Driver Shift Control, e.g., "tap shifting". Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. It also contains a durable transmission pan, reliable gear seat, EPC, a 13-vane pump assembly, high-performance cooler, hardened stator shaft with rings and specialized control solenoids. Your car is quick! Sometimes, finding the cause of a complaint isnt as straightforward as one would expect; sometimes, these causes can be very elusive. While not new to the 6L80, it uses an Input Speed Sensor to monitor input speeds to compare against engine speed and Output Shaft Sensor speed, using this data to adjust shift speeds under instantly detectable conditions. While its true that, many times, the root cause of a converter failure lies in the transmission, in this case, there is ample evidence that the opposite is true: an inherent torque converter problem might be the root cause of a lot of the transmission failures. Indirectly affects shift control. The 6 speed takes a fair amount of trans tunnel work and my Holley Dominator ECU can't control it. Indirectly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling. Convert your american classic car with more modern technology. Do you know does the aftermarket have a fix? It can also be found in the Lincoln Navigator. The idler gear itself has two threaded holes opposite each other for the use of a puller (see figure 1, above). Because of this, the 6L80 - despite having two or three more gears than its predecessors, is unexpectedly short in length. The thought is that the bowl shape of the TMBX is better suited towards a more even apply, and because its thinner, the TMBX piston has the ability to flex and better conform to the front cover. Renew Subscription
The 10L80 transmission is a 10-speed longitudinal automatic transmission that was designed to operate near the efficiency of a CVT while improving fuel economy in GM high-horsepower vehicles highlighted by the Camaro, Suburban, Tahoe, and Escalade. Newer to the transmission world is its use of direct clutch-to-clutch shifting and the total lack of bands. Our theory as to why 6L80, 6L90 converters fail like they do is related to the shape and thickness of the JMBX piston. These concerns may be caused by a sticking TCC Regulator Valve (Figure 5). One common 6l80 issue due to design flaws include premature clutch failure. The 6L80 / 6L90 TEHCM is located inside of the transmission on the 6L80 / 6L90 valve body. if the car would be faster with the 6 speed auto vs the 10 speed auto. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series, - Shift pointers: A 4T65-E that wants to move in Park and Neutral, Being tuned in: The value of transmission tuning, Ford harsh downshifts: 6R75 2-1, 10R60 7-6, Announcing the winners of the Top 20 Products and Tools contest, Diagnosing an unusual problem: A slow-to-respond solenoid, Video: Lubegard Limited Slip Supplement overview, Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes, How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission, Solving electronic control problems in todays automatic transmissions, Sonnax highlights 10L/10R solenoid stabilization retainer, 9T clip insert, GFX adds new pump for vintage Powerglide models, Searching for the source of an unexpected transmission fluid leak, Transmission slipping in fifth gear: An elusive cause of a common problem, 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System. And you are correct the converters in these units are experiencing a high percentage of failure and are more problematic than normal. Sonnax is an industry leader in the cutting edge design, manufacture and distribution of the highest quality products to the automotive aftermarket, commercial vehicle industries, and industrial sectors utilizing drivetrain technology. This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. The 10L80 was a joint engineering effort between GM and Ford. Nothing but problems with it big clunks, engine revs up before grabbing a gear. This is both a return to and a departure from previous automotive control systems in the industry in that earlier electronic transmissions used a separate control module, later to be integrated into the Engine Control Modules which were thus termed Powertrain Control Modules. After an internal inspection of your transmission, we will notify you of any hard part damage that will carry an additional cost. My problem with the 4L80E is it was always a workhorse and in the past 25-30 years trucks have gotten much quicker and versatile. The GM 10L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is one such hybrid component that General Motors jointly developed with, wait for it, the Ford Motor Company! TCRA Annual Seminar Coming to Charlotte this April! A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). The overall First gear ratio is deeper at 2.97:1 which means the car builder can leave a taller rear gear ratio in the rear end and still have great First gear acceleration. And now, with some of these transmissions coming out of warranty, the aftermarket will soon begin to see issues that occur with them beyond their first years of life during their aging process. The band number is printed on the solenoids in the location shown and will be a 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 (Figure 3). Like earlier automatics, the 6L80 features one line pressure tap available for testing and diagnostic purposes. The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from! The idea behind this conversion offers multiple overlapping advantages. It appears that GM has put a very minor taper into the cover and possibly the piston as well. Conveniently, the main transmission that the 6L80E is going to be confused for all have a different number of pan gasket bolts. What is your recomendation for towing? The transmission can also signal the engine to drop power during a shift if there's a possibility of clutch damage. Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. Third 2.15 Also fits '05-'06 Pontiac GTO (differential side). Pre-Owned. At this point, the converter rebuilder is faced with either finding another core that he hopes will have good components or purchasing a Sonnax forged cover GM-CC-13 and forged piston GM-DA-17P. The drive gear and idler gear with the bearing are not sold separately. The exceptions to this would be the 2006-2014 Corvette, 2006 G8, 2010-2015 Camaro, and the Chevrolet SS. Thanks to the optimal gear spacing, the engine RPM only drops approximately 20% when the 10L80 changes gear. With its 2017-2018 heralding, Ford has equipped 3 domestic models with the 10R80 transmission. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. Its only about a 3/4-inch band around the inside circumference of the converter. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. To achieve this flip-flopped damper orientation in the JMBX, the profile and shape of the piston is radically different from the TMBX. The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. But keeping the engine in its ideal RPM range allows the 10L80 transmission to operate with nearly the efficiency of a CVT transmission. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. We pride ourselves in staying at the forefront of our industry, technology, research & development and our commitment to you, our customer. The case is a cast aluminum alloy. Power Pack Only, for Power Hub | 195756-7754. DESIGNED FOR GEN V LT1 & LT4 ONLY. Joined Feb 11, 2007 Messages 11 Location . Interestingly enough, it was not long after this that Brian received another 10L80 with the same issue to resolve. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete. The Chevrolet Performance 6L80E trans comes with a set of wiring harness adapters and a flash drive that is used to configure the transmission to be used behind a GM LS engine in a rear wheel drive application. The new 10-speed combo is 4.70 x 2.85 = 13.39:1. So you would need to begin with a 2008 or newer Express to be able to convert from a 4L80 to a 6L80 / 6L90. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that we're closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. The ideal upgrade for modified performance vehicles, Sonnax 3-bolt adapter flange yoke kit T35-GMFD-01K makes it easy to convert a two-piece driveline to a one-piece, U-joint-style driveline. 4. Engine torque estimate: Directly affects shift pressure control, TCC control, and transmission diagnostics. The new Third gear in the TCI trans is 1.57:1, which is then overdriven to create Fourth gear which is 1.57 x 0.75 = 1.18:1 which is just 18 percent away from direct drive 1:1, which becomes Fifth gear. LT). Helping transmission shops achievesuccessful and profitable operation. Before we get started, lets cover the basics. The TCI six-speed version has a few special additions to it. For the 4L60-E TMBX, the pistons are .115" thick, and for the 6L80, 6L90 JMBX, the pistons are significantly thicker at .150". Most full-size trucks and SUVs with a 6L80, 6L90 use a JMBX full-size (300mm) style converter. This is a normal and desired behavior. NonStop-Transmission. Thank You.. Jef, Swapping a LS3 and 6 spd trans in , In place of a 454 and a turbo 400 3 spd, I currently have posi rear, Big yolk drive shaft, after the conversion, will i need to mess with the rear gear, or will I be ok for around town and occasional red light duel. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. It features dynamic veins and a rotating wheel driven by a steel gear with it's own filter. 3. A horsepower revolution spawned by GM's increasingly powerful Gen. III+ V8 engines and their aggressive platforms such as the Cadillac STSV, XLRV, various trucks and SUV's and the venerable Corvette. *$3,245 does not include any Hard Part damage, Torque Converter or TCM/ECM tuning. By combining a wide 7.39 overall gear ratio spread, with smaller steps between each gear, this GM 10-speed automatic transmission is able to keep the engine in its ideal power band during acceleration. Nov 26 . Jeff Smith has had a passion for cars since he began working at his grandfather's gas station at the age 10. I believe this would allow a lower horsepower engine to perform similarly to a higher HP engine mated to a TH400. Related Articles Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission Solving, This article applies to Chrysler RFE, RLE and TES transmissions that utilize pressure control solenoids (PCS) for line pressure control. Its the best of both worlds. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? 2wd transmissions feature conical shaped tailhousings and an output yoke, which are replaced with a typically shorter 4wd style output shaft of varying lengths and spline counts, depending on the application. But look at the clutch pistons and spring dampers they are markedly different. Legal/Privacy. var d=new Date();
Thanks Jeff. Dissecting the E-Ray, the First Hybrid AWD Vette. The 6L80 is a modular transmission, featuring removable bellhousings and tailhousings for interchangeability with the GM 90 Degree engines and other potential engines in the future. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. The 6L90 has a beefier set of gears and many internal upgrades. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. Required fields are marked *. Also since the transmission is different the gearing and tuning are naturally different. Thats pretty much all thats to it. The complaint is usually associated with the vehicle sitting for a while (after it has been running at operating temperature). RECALLS! Use it to verify the vehicle has a M30 4L60ENow, if the transmission is out of the vehicle (or if you dont trust a sticker), the 6L80E has an 18 bolt case. See how the ratios have swapped places? Click Get a Free Estimate for an unbeatable price on a replacement remanufactured transmission. Its been on the road for a few years, and were starting to see some common failures for this unit. That is just the beginning. This seems to indicate that there will be other 10L80 transmissions that will be experiencing this same new kind of pump noise condition. However, if you look beyond the outside of the front covers of TMBX and JMBX and look inside the units, the similarity quickly disappears. LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle starts from a complete stop. Starting with the 2017 Ford F-150, the 10R80 transmission was an option. This drives up the price of the rebuilt converter, but ensures that this kind of failure wont happen again. Would love your thoughts, please comment. check the starter bendix and see if its loose and bouncing off the flywheel. If you are tearing down a new job and cant find any hard part failure that would result in the amount of metal you have in the pan, its just about certain that the inside of the torque converter looks like the disaster area shown in Figure 1. August 8, 2022. The General Motors 6L80-E & 6L90-E transmissions are among the most diverse and capable transmissions of their time; being used in everything from exciting muscle cars to family SUV's. In this Drivetrain 101, we'll analyze all of its most prolific problems, solutions and upgrades. Remember, this is just a theory. The 10-speed first appeared in the 2017 Camaro ZL1 backing up the 650-horsepower, supercharged 6.2L engine. 10L80 Transmission Specs General - 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter Application - RWD & 4WD / AWD RPO Code - MF6 Production Began - 2017 Case - 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Torque Converter - 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A Stuck On. The ball bearing remained tight on the stator shaft support housing. When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). Shift the transmission to Reverse. Before answering that question, its worth noting the role that Sonnax plays in the converter rebuilding business. In the TMBX, the damper is on the transmission side of the clutch piston, and in the JMBX, the damper is located on the engine side of the piston. To view our 2020 replacement transmission pricing guide, click here. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle downshifts to a complete stop. Since these are straight cut gears, they will tend to be somewhat noisy. The 6L80 features a generously deep first gear for an automatic, making for favorably powerful starts from a standing stop. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? All this is handled with application of planetary ratios. The TMBX and the JMBX have similar covers and use the same woven carbon friction material, yet the JMBX fails catastrophically at a very high rate and the TMBX cover rarely fails. Members
Beginning with the F-150, it then made its way into the Mustang and the Expedition (as well as the Everest, and upcoming Ranger reboot). Hi Jeff, I have a 2016 Silverado with the 5.3 and the 8 speed transmission. The 6L80 (and similar 6L90) is a six-speed automatic transmission built by General Motors at its Willow Run Transmission plant in Ypsilanti, MI.It was introduced in late 2005, and is very similar in design to the smaller 6L45/6L50, produced at GM Powertrain in Strasbourg, France.It features clutch to clutch shifting, eliminating the one-way clutches used on older transmission designs. Always appreciate the great exchanges. This creates the situation where the engine drops less rpm from First to Second gear. if (yr!=2012)
Heres what we mean: Lets assume we have a TH-400 trans in our Chevelle with a 4.10:1 rear gear. $ 158.00 Select options. $ 439.00 Select options. 10L80 Transmission. Chevrolet, Buick & GM Engines into the Jeep Ford 1.8L - 2.5L "Pinto" Engines into the Jeep 4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants). Its a little tough to see, but the thickness of the pistons is also different. This means that its designed for rear wheel drive vehicles only. Reply. If thats the case, the valve body will have to be replaced to correct these concerns. Online Buyer's Guide
97 it's a, I have a 2007 h3 hummer base model. Put simply, its the converter. Then it can upshift to one of its three overdrive gears for maximum fuel economy. If the transmission fluid is discolored or has evidence of debris in the fluid, it would be recommended to replace the torque converter and flush the system to complete this repair. So why does the JMBX converter have this chronic problem? See the pictures below to help you tell if you have the right transmission. To give you a sense of scope, for every single forged replacement cover that Sonnax sells for the 4L60-E TMBX, we sell many, many more for the 6L80/90 JMBX. Brake pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling, Air/fuel management adaptive values reset. Seems like the 6 speed auto would be better for the torque curve. Your email address will not be published. What is a good torque converter today for a 4.3 high output 4 wheel drive Blazer? We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. The stator shaft support housing is fitted with a converter drive gear and idler gear. I'd be modding it to a FBO car with cam and converter eventually. GM now also offers both 8- and 10-speed automatics. * EXCELLENT FOR VEHICLES THAT ARE EQUIPPED WITH ENGINES PRODUCING UP TO 650 FT LBS OF TORQUE.
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