This kit comes complete with Expansion valve, o-ring kit, and 1ft. Quick View. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. = R134a Charge Level. Can I use the one for the R-12? The original expansion valves work very well with R134a. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. There is a lot of differences between the R12 and the R134a fittings, you can't mistake them. I think so. R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Rich Membership Chairman Using R134a in an R12 system will cause the oil not to move with the refrigerant, causing a system failure and probably won't even cool the system well, if at all. I know this is bad, etc, and deposits on the metal can act as insulators. You do not need to replace every o-ring in the system, but if you happen to open a connection that has an o-ring you should replace the old o-ring with one that is compatible with R134a and lubricate the o-ring with ac oil. Are r12 and r134 fittings different? Be sure to test @ 1500 to 2000 engine rpm, and record the ambient temp as well. Concentration level: The R134a vapor dilutes the oxygen concentration in the air to a low level, thereby causing harm. R-134a is widely believed to be the most acceptable R12 substitute. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. R12 is highly destructive to the earths ozone layer. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. 1) Look Here at the available sizes of PF condensors.2) Go look at your vehicle's condensor & mounting. Even if the system leaks, repairing the leaks and recharging it with R-12 is usually the best repair alternative. Do I leave the orignal condensor in, etc?Thanks. is good, then I should be looking elsewhere? Welcome to rxmechanic.com. That would be the "black death" syndrome. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. The newer valves and switches will work with both refrigerants. Electric fans do wear out. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. In this study, without the need for major modifications to the bus air conditioner, the variation of the ejector dimensions according to different parameters has been investigated in the case of using the R1234yf, R1234ze(E), or R600a refrigerants, which may be a substitute for R134a as a refrigerant due to . I had a pair on my SAAB that seemed ok - but new ones ran 20% faster!Your best clue to airflow issues is a 60 mph test. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." However, if it is taken close to a fire flame or any electrical heating element, it disintegrates into toxic products. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. You either get a system that will function well with R1234yf or get any other type. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. we convert older systems where i work all the time and they work fine. R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees). The difference really shows up on the high side. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. Could that be screwing up the systems performance?Anyway, when I installed the system, the new TXV (is that short for expansion valve?) Recomanem consultar les pgines web de Xarxa Catal per veure tota la nostra oferta. The aux fan seems to be working fine - it switches on occassionally. . Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. 2) Frost on the Vents. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. A/C systems designed to use R-12 will cool best when charged with R-12 refrigerant. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. Components Coils, Heaters, Motors, etc. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. Inasmuch as R134a has a global warming potential thats over 1000 times more threatening than carbon dioxide, its better than R12. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. Is that reasonable?Vent airflow is good, I think. Talk about what services you provide. Crap! A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . A thermostatic expansion valve (TXV) (see Figure 1) is a refrigeration and air conditioning throttling device that controls the amount of refrigerant liquid injected into a system's evaporatorbased on the evaporator outlet temperature and pressurecalled the superheat. According to Wikipedia, There is such a thing as "r132a" (1,1-Dichloro-2,2-Difluoroethane), however there is no indication of it being a commercially produced refrigerant. If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. The catalytic converter is an essential component of your car's emission system that helps save the environment from harmful emissions. Remember, being aluminum, they lower the temps better, and do not pass off as much heat to the radiator, which then makes it's job easier and lowers underhood temps (besides lowering vent temps inside the car). The oil used in R12 systems is not compatible with R134a refrigerant. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. Still, I have some simple green, so may as well give it a go. hardly noticable. Is there a source of valves by, say, eaton number? Are you sure you have an R4? Skin contact: If the R134a (liquid) comes in contact with your skin, it could cause a burn. The only material difference between automotive A/C and a window A/C unit or refrigerator is that in the home application, the components are all inside the same rectangular box, but in the automotive application, the components are distributed throughout the car. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). A vacuum pump, a refrigerant recover system, quality service gauge set with both low and high side gagues, and much more besides the lessons to learn what to do and what not to do. This drop can affect energy consumption since the plant will operate for a longer period or a larger plant will have to be installed. I would suggest you do stay away from R-134a since with the hot gas bypass of your system (if it is to be just as the original) extremes of temperature and pressure will be very hard on your compressor and the rest of the system. B. George Bray on Wed August 31, 2005 5:03 PM I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. This means that it has a high potential of causing depletion to the ozone layer. What is needed? The difference between R12 and R134a TEV (exp valves) is primarily the 'superheat'. To bless the system the technician should attach a R134a sticker somewhere in the engine compartment to note the car is using R134a. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? Table 1 summarizes the technical characteristics of three potential R134a alternatives. The problem with these so called drop in replacements is that to properly handle them you may need dedicated equipment to identify the gas and evacuate it for proper disposal. I used a full can of evap cleaner. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. There is NO reason to retrofit a vehicle to R-134a as long as the R-12 system is cooling properly and contains a normal charge of refrigerant. I don't believe it is but I had a service guy tell me it needs to be done. Why wait for 200f on the engine coolant to start the fan? Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. Took me a while to figure that one out, and how to say that. Is there a difference in the expansion valve for R12 as opposed to R-134a? Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. A Lot of the fins are bent, especially at the top. Should I do the test again with the the aux fan jumpered? R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. Pray I can let some oil out of the compressor without losing my precious R12. They can be mounted quite easy,and there is a mounting kit that helps to hang it. However, R134a is better than R12. The non-flammables can have R22 type gas which is not compatible with most rubber hoses or they have gases that contribute to global warming. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Hi pdrayton- If you can remember the oil capacity that you found in all your research and post that, then bohica and others can have a better idea if you have too much; see if you can find that info! With the oil leaking out and being told all sorts of things about how these compressors don't have a sump etc, I wanted to be on the safe side. I'm thinking of jumping the temp switch and leaving the fan on to see how it does. 4) Inconsistent Airflow. Stay home and grill your own steaks and stir your own martini. I could easily be over at least 2 - 3 ounces over on the oil. In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). It does not "pool" to any degree in a large amount anywhere. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. R12 is used in several applications like low temperature, medium temperature, and high-temperature applications. I'm putting r12 back in my system, but all of the valves I can for the application (1990 jeep grand wagoneer) say r134a on them. Carefully study the chart and compare the following: To a large extent, the choice is up to you. On this website we are addressing only R134a and not other suggested drop in replacements. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? The AC usually does not work at all. That way I will have reduced the oil by about 1/3 (assuming the oil is mixed evenly through the system). I've straightened the fans I can and sprayed simple green on it, let it soak then hosed it down well. I put in a new (not reman) compressor (R4 I believe it is) in my merc 240D, new drier, new expansion valve, new o-rings, nylog. You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. Is there more info needed?THanks -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Paul:I had to dig a bit deeper - MB made several running changes in the 1983 123'sThere are actually 4 different circuit diagrams for the A/C system that year - just for your 123.123 I found the R4 reference, and it should have 170 Ml of oil in the system.Your aux fan should run at the ambients you listed. So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. It is a haloalkane and hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) refrigerant that has thermodynamic properties, potential global warming for one hundred years, and insignificant ozone depletion. That switch should close @ 52c. It is a known suspect that lets heat into the heat exchanger/core even when off because the mono-valve is on the exit side of the heater core. You can use this space to go into a little more detail about your company. -------------------------Just another brick in the wallHad a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil, The older expansion valves were filled with the refrigerant they were used with, the replacement valves (today) are filled with a different chemical to work with both refrigerants..Hope this helps-------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose, I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. Fitting a PF condensor is not rocket science, but it requires some planning. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? According to the thermodynamic characteristics, it is close to the R12 freon, however, it is 10-15% worse in terms of cooling capacity and is more fluid. Besides, R134a refrigerant was manufactured after R12 was banned to help reduce the harshness of the old chemical (R12) on the ozone layer. R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 Actually R134a is more efficient. It's helluva humid and hot here in north florida, and I drive around all day for my job. Generally this works well for the whole system. #4. They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. Interestingly, theres one oil type that works perfectly with both types of refrigerants. I would not do a 134a conversion without a PF condensor. The condenser water inlet temperature and flow rate are controlled with the use of a . The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." You can use the R134a retrofit capacity chart for this purpose. look at the difference! R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). If liquid refrigerant were to exit the evaporator. After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. Just because the radiator does not boil people assume that the cooling system is ok. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: Chemistry The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valvewarning signs for a deteriorating patient with covid 19 infection 2022.07.03 18:36 18:36 Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. By: james smith underoath; Comments: 0 . 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. R134a and R12 are among the most popular types of refrigerants. R-134a XV for R-134a use. R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. I recommend replacing the expansion valve when you do the swap. bokoen1 hoi4 the great purge / meryl and maks dancing with the stars / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. What is a T/C?4. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. MB has specfic test parameters for performance, but you can always test at max load - doors open fan on highest speed.The oil overcharge looks like a parabolic curve. Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. 5) A/C System Failure. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. Unfortunately, the R12 refrigerant doesnt always blow cold air. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. gital control scheme. It is mixed with the freon for the most part, and does accumulate in all components in small amounts. ). This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. Add to cart. Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. Safe but sorry! It won't be optimal, though. As for R134a and R1234yf, theres no room for conversion. How is the vent airflow?I would jumper the aux fan & check the performance. I'll put the relay on for that. absorb by the evaporator to insure all liquid refrigerant entering the evaporator. Large temperature difference between expansion valve inlet and outlet oReplace expansion valve Air . R1234yf. This may be the source of your oil confusion. 5. Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). Thanks so much Bohica - you've save me many more hours of fruitless speculation. Biggest you can fit in there is best. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. In large application systems, the vapor density of this refrigerant is usually high. The reason is that the vehicles, for instance, manufactured currently configure the engine for R1234yf refrigerant, making no provision for replacement. The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. A York oil capacity is listed as "6.5 to 9.6 ounces". Not going to mess up your 'do, but you can feel it. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. You do not want to exceed the systems high side recommendations. Get to the point where I can walk without crutches2. Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! It runs between the condenser outlet, receiver/drier unit and expansion valve at the firewall. Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, its empty. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1991Make: Jaguar Model: XJ6Engine Size: 4.0. . It is usually sold under the brand name, Freon 12. I bought a relay to put on it connected to the compressor clutch. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. R134a requires the use of synthetic oil! As noted, measure up front as best as you can to get as close to the aftermarket dim. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. I have just bought gauges. Use a strong surfactant like Simple Green or Zep Citrus, and soak the fins on the condensor. With that said, I would source the TXV from another source such as NAPA just to avoid any problems. Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. The original CFC expansion valve used for R12 needs to be replaced with an HFC one for 134a to feed the evaporator correctly. Expansion Valve. You'll get marginally better performance out of the change as the expansion valve is matches the refrigerant characteristics. american sniper longest shot; how to adjust sunsetter awning arms; pastor jeremy roberts texas. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! Disconnect the two hose lines to the compressor, protect the ends from getting dirty. It will work and there will be very little, in any difference in performance.As Chick stated, the difference is only the gas used in the sensor tube. In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. They should be able to keep you comfortable on a long trip, but don't expect vent frost in 3 minutes or lesss.2) Too much oil can reduce cooling capacity, and the effect is not linear. R-12 to R-134a Conversion. Swapping the components isnt a herculean task, but recharging the AC is a challenge. There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. Later model cars that come with 134A will have 134A only connectors. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. Questions About Becoming A Professional Member? In short, NO! The car never overheats, if that has any import. If 50 degrees across the cond. If ambient is 90 (today) and the output of the condensor is 110, that's pretty good isn't it? R134a Refrigerant Recharge Kit with BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve and R134a Quick Coupler, R134a/R-12/R-22 Freon Refrigerant Hose Can Tap Kit for A/C System - Easy to use. Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. Superheat you can consider to be the additional amount of heat. The expansion valve(Tx) is in the car at the inlet line to the evaporator with compressors you best get advice from an ac specialist shop as the differences could be the gas that it pumps some systems use R12 and others use R134a or later gas yes R1234yf Freon gas can be replaced by R134a; the newer systems were designed with this in mind so no, there will be no damage to the compressor but some time in .
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